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Who is 'me'? I am but a concept. In reality All you see is a body... The identity and past you chain it to are what lead to people trapped in lives they wish they could go back in time and undo.
It doesn't matter how much a pedophile tries to right their wrong, they are tarnished for life... What's the point of prison?
Instead of branding people as X or Y we should come up with an 'ideal person' and help all get closer to being it, forgiving them for past sins.
I personally do hold grudges but the grudge may not necessarily be against who that person has become today. See?
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In the distant future, we will be able to synthesize the individual's memories. Suppose we generate a memory of a person that has never existed in reality - through programming. Then we inject this memory into the brain of the experimental subject, overriding all of his memories. How will this individual, when awoken, see himself? Obviously he will use those injected memories to understand who he is, and even if we tell him that these memories are synthesized and do not describe his past, he still will never be able to escape those memories and they will always define his world view (if you disagree, consider the scenario where you learn tomorrow that you are such an experimental subject, and the evidence demonstrated to you proves it beyond the reasonable doubt - will you discard who you are, or will you remain the same person, just with a new bit of knowledge about yourself?).
As such, our identity is defined purely by the content of the grey matter in our brains. Change this content - and you will change the person's identity.
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21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
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We aren't mindless objects. Their is the hammer analogy i remember. A famous person i forget used a hammer. 100 years later, someone went to sell the hammer and advertised it as the "famous person's" hammer. However, the hammer got a new grib, got a new head, basically was reworked. So, the person selling that hammer couldn't sell it as the famous person's hammer since everything was new. That is true in objects. But our brain, our consciousness would be the same as if the hammer was melted down and then reworked on. It is the same hammer but newly made.
Our bodies are the vessel we need to function in reality. Therefore, our bodies are subject to change. It is our mind, our consciousness, which remains consistent. At this point it is hard to explain bc yeah, we may not have an identity since things are new. I don't think there is a term for the consistent factor that make me, me. You can just say there is a "me-ness" that stays consistent. For myself, the best way i can describe what that is would be through things like my favorite color.
I may have changed throughout the years, but my favorite color(s) have remained the same. Not only have they remained the same, my reasoning for why i like these colors have remained the same. I like the color black bc it is symbolic of darkness, goth, dark music, etc. I like the color hot pink bc it looks great with black. This element of myself hasn't changed through the years. An element of who i am has stayed consistent. Therefore, if you don't have an identity, you def. have a self or a "me-ness" that stays consistent throughout your life. That can be your identity/self.
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The identity is purely the concept our brain holds, and it hardly has anything to do with the world around our brain . Allow me to offer a very simple mental experiment that will demonstrate this argument.
In the distant future, we will be able to synthesize the individual's memories. Suppose we generate a memory of a person that has never existed in reality - through programming. Then we inject this memory into the brain of the experimental subject, overriding all of his memories. How will this individual, when awoken, see himself? Obviously he will use those injected memories to understand who he is, and even if we tell him that these memories are synthesized and do not describe his past, he still will never be able to escape those memories and they will always define his world view (if you disagree, consider the scenario where you learn tomorrow that you are such an experimental subject, and the evidence demonstrated to you proves it beyond the reasonable doubt - will you discard who you are, or will you remain the same person, just with a new bit of knowledge about yourself?).
As such, our identity is defined purely by the content of the grey matter in our brains. Change this content - and you will change the person's identity
Accepting these premises, which I believe are yours (correct me if I am wrong) and I will follow them to what I see to be the logical conclusion.
P1) Identity is what "makes you, you"
P2) Identity is defined as the concept/content our brain holds...(of?)
C) Our identity is what we conceive it to be
P1) Identity contingent on memories
P2) Memories can be replaced
C) Identity can be altered
I this right? And correct me if I am wrong, but are you John Locke? (or his transferred consciousness?...what the difference right lol)
Respectfully,
Devon
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It is unreasonable to conceptually divide a whole person into their aggregates to determine which of the aggregates define personal identity. By way of applying Occam's Razor, if the solution can be satisfactorily ascertained without adjusting the structure of the problem so to speak, it is this option which should be attempted to falsify first. In this case, the simplest solution is the best.
These aggregates consist of:
- the body and concepts which flow from it such as the ability to reproduce/ pass on genes, grow, respond to internal and external stimuli, and the ability to think
- the mind and its ability to reason/ judge, recognize its own existence, formulate language able to represent abstract concepts, and store and recall events outside of their occurrence in time.
- the spirit and the soul (I recognize them as distinct, though I still am fine-tuning how I understand the Bible to speak of them) and the implications associated with them, namely that there is a God who made them a part of us and a God to whom we are accountable (we on instinct make decisions from a value system based primarily outside of strict syllogisms, but based on whether or not we view something as right or wrong. If we see a violation of a "right", if it is grievous enough and if we are not guilty of the same, we will usually have a strong emotional cry for justice. This hints at our basic nature as a moral one and is too knee-jerk for us to think that the moral reaction is born of reason, though reason can be applied in most cases after the fact. These two are the seat of our affections and personality.
- the societal roles we bear such as husband, father, child, student, doctor, teacher, friend, pastor, Christian, Heathen etc
It is senseless to divide these up and make one responsible for making you who you are to the exclusion of the others. You are everything you are right now.Sidebar, while the cells change, the DNA remains your DNA, so each new cell is just as much "you" as the last, meaning that even after a whole cycle of your body's cells that body is still distinctly and uniquely you.
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Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
The Animals
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In essence, yes, it is a good summary of what I meant to say. I think identity is defined by our organism, it is not an entity existing in itself - and while you could say that we have a certain degree of control over our identity, in the end that control in itself is relying on the concept of "free will", which is suspect, since according to, at least, modern views "free will" is not really free and we only perceive it to be free.
Regarding Locke's interpretation of transferred consciousness, I think he leaves out a very essential detail: the source of of conscious perspective. We unfortunately do not know yet what makes us "us". For example, if I was cloned, where would my perspective be? Would I see the world from my old version's perspective? From the cloned version's perspective? From both at the same time? From neither? I do not have the answer, but I do think that the example of transferred consciousness he has considered is much more complicated than something that can be resolved with a simple philosophical argument.
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Thank you for the response,
I would be interested to hear your evaluation of my position a few posts up.
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I think of identity as body and soul. I'll lose part of my identity when I die. That's not too big of a bummer in my opinion, because I know the Bible says we will get a better body later. I think it'll be strange to be without a body, but as long as I can be in the presence of God, it'll be alright.
That's what I think.
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